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68136 Posts in 2333 Topics by 1381 Members - Latest Member: MRWIDMORE November 22, 2008, 01:30:01 PM
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Author Topic: Exotic Matter and Compass 325  (Read 386 times)
DPIredale
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« on: June 20, 2008, 12:59:24 PM »

Dear All,

Okay so I’m sorry if this has already been talk through but I’ve not seen anything on the other bogs so would like to raise the point now about why I think the island cannot be seen or reached without traveling along the specific compass rout of 325.

The last video in the Pearl explained that there is a pocket of ‘exotic matter’ within the island that exhibits unusual characteristics. I don’t know loads about exotic matter but I do know that it causes anti-gravity by Einstein's definitions in his general theory of relativity.

Objects with a large mass cause curves in space and other objects will fall into these curves if the curve is large enough, this is what we call gravity. Our Earth curves space so much that we are actually falling into the centre point of the curvature, the centre of the Earth. So where large objects will stretch space to form a curvature, exotic matter will do the opposite and actually pull this space back inwards, essentially causing anti-gravity.

What I am thinking with the Island is that the exotic matter is just enough to close in the points in space directly around the island. What this would do is leave the island in tact but close in all other areas around the island into a much smaller point. To put it simply, this would be like putting the island inside a balloon where the island is in tact in the centre but the space around it (i.e. the rubber of the balloon) would be pulled in to a single point (i.e. the blow hole at the top of the balloon) by the power of the exotic matter.

This would explain a few things:

1. The bearing of 325 on the compass would be the one direction that can lead people in and out of the islands central area in space. Going back to the balloon analogy, this would be the one direction in and out of the blow hole at the end of the balloon. Going any other direction would lead a person straight into the curved space (caused by the exotic matter) around the island and ultimately direct them back to the island (as Desmond found out when trying to escape by boat).

2.The space would be pulled in to such a small point in the pacific ocean that unless ships or planes were traveling directly down the ‘blow hole’ they would pass straight past the island and never come into contact with it or see it. This is why it has been so hard for so many people to find the island.

3. Going back to the General Theory of Relativity and curvatures in space: the light would take longer to travel around the spacial area containing the island than it would outside the area (i.e. all the way around the inside of the balloon vs a quick flash past the balloons blowhole). Therefore should the curvature in space be large enough, all inhabitants inside the islands spacial area would perceive time differently than those outside. This would go some way to explaining the changes in the time of day when the helicopter transported Desmond etc from the island to the boat for the first time.

4. Finally, if you combine the exotic matter theory with the intense electromagnetic forces present on the island it would be possible to explain why the plane first went missing as it was essentially sucked through the opening in the space curvature and onto the island.

Everyones opinion on this would be very welcome. I am the only one out of my friends who watches LOST and it i extremely frustrating not being able to discuss what’s going on!!!

Regards,

Deevo

P.S. for anyone who understands the above and is as big a geek as I am then yes this is in fact how you would also explain the nature of the Tardis from Doctor Who. The centre of the Tardis sits in the middle of the space curvature and exotic matter pulls in space to a single point (i.e. the entrance to the Tardis). This is why from the outside the space looks small but on the inside there is loads of room.
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« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2008, 11:02:53 PM »

i feel the same way about my friends.

and that is an AWESOME connection you made with the exotic matter. i have been reading up on exotic matter and negative energy and all of that stuff. and this makes perfect sense. thanks!
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2008, 11:51:51 AM »

Kinda on the same line of a blck hole but instead of a vaccuum, there's a little pod that holds the island. and I love Dr. Who but i watched the one in the early 80s. I think the compass bearing changes each time the "island moves" and it's the pinhole in which Pierre Change speaks of in the new video released. Faraday's coordinates are different than the one Ben gives MIcheal. and Desmondturned the key b4 Ben gave the coordinates to Mike. So a the writers missed that(which is.01% chance) or there are other coordinates to get off the island. google- Faradays coordinates or Lenz's Laws. I waited a long time saying anything about googling these but I think ya'll will get it.   
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2008, 12:01:34 PM »

And after checking that out think about them being stuck in not only a "ballon" but a  time loop. One that Faraday caused going to the past(if he did) and warning them. The Dharma group trying to do things differently over and over to get the fututre "right" by saving their lives. There is only some much space and time a balloon can hold. Blu- let me know what you think. I am way impressed w you! 
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2008, 01:28:12 PM »

that was a more logical and researched theory than i could come up with lol....but lets see what i can pick at

1. The bearing of 325.....this is hard to say, i think 325 is the direct route to the island(like the balloon hole) and is the only safe way to reach the island at the correct "time"......the only reason why i say correct "time" is that the doctor's dead body also reached the island, but a day before he was actually killed.(That whole subject is discussed in another thread) So yea 325 is probably the only "safe" heading.    And i do believe the bearing will  change now that the island has "moved", but I also think its stayed the same for the previous time because Desmond kept the island from moving again by turning the key.   My only problem with this is, that you have the black rock, Henry Gales Balloon, and Eko's brothers plane that all crashed on the island....which we dont know how they reached the island, oh and Des's boat.


2.  The problem with #2 is, that the writers have never shown the island from its "true" outside perspective....where never saw a shot of the island from the freighter, which was just outside of the "barrier"....the only view we have had was from the O6 copter, when the island was being "moved", so maybe it had to come back into reality/real world before it moves to whereever.....so in essence, yes the island could essentially truly be invisible to the "real" world  ex: satelites, planes.


3.  That one sounds real good, cause i believe when Sayid and Des first went to the freighter it was early daylight, and reached the freighter it was already night....for a 20 min helicopter ride?Huh  But when we had another trip from the copter to freighter in the last episode there was no day/night difference.  Did Frank take the wrong bearing the first time? Which maybe caused them to jump ahead in time physically, which also sent Des's mind back to the past?


4. Im a little confused on #4??? Or are you saying that because Desmond failed to reach the counter in time...it opened up the balloon hole and pretty much sucked the plane in like a vacuum/gravity until the whole closed back to normal size?


Bear with the long read, sorry ha ha
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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2008, 06:39:53 AM »


Firstoff I want to compliment you on bringing up a very complex and well thought out idea to our forum. You deserve reps for youur post and I will be giving one after I struggle my through disecting it best I can. You also deserve a kick in the but for making think this hard and giving me a headache! LOL!





Dear All,

Okay so I’m sorry if this has already been talk through but I’ve not seen anything on the other bogs so would like to raise the point now about why I think the island cannot be seen or reached without traveling along the specific compass rout of 325.

The last video in the Pearl explained that there is a pocket of ‘exotic matter’ within the island that exhibits unusual characteristics. I don’t know loads about exotic matter but I do know that it causes anti-gravity by Einstein's definitions in his general theory of relativity.

Objects with a large mass cause curves in space and other objects will fall into these curves if the curve is large enough, this is what we call gravity. Our Earth curves space so much that we are actually falling into the centre point of the curvature, the centre of the Earth. So where large objects will stretch space to form a curvature, exotic matter will do the opposite and actually pull this space back inwards, essentially causing anti-gravity.

Point of clarification here on Einstiens theroy of relativity: Correct me if Im wrong but didnt Einstien hypothosize that those curvatures actually are pushing objects down rather then objects being pulled by the earth? So by creating the reverse, what is the opposite effect? Would that mean objects are drawn towards space?

Quote
What I am thinking with the Island is that the exotic matter is just enough to close in the points in space directly around the island. What this would do is leave the island in tact but close in all other areas around the island into a much smaller point. To put it simply, this would be like putting the island inside a balloon where the island is in tact in the centre but the space around it (i.e. the rubber of the balloon) would be pulled in to a single point (i.e. th
e blow hole at the top of the balloon) by the power of the exotic matter.


Im totally lost here? Could you try to explain this to me in another way because Im just not grasping what your trying to describe. In your explination are the curves overlapping each other or are they just not touching to create the bottle neck you seem to be describing?

Quote
This would explain a few things:

1. The bearing of 325 on the compass would be the one direction that can lead people in and out of the islands central area in space. Going back to the balloon analogy, this would be the one direction in and out of the blow hole at the end of the balloon. Going any other direction would lead a person straight into the curved space (caused by the exotic matter) around the island and ultimately direct them back to the island (as Desmond found out when trying to escape by boat).

Forgive me here if I got this wrong because Im not experienced with compasses. What you are describing is a fixed opening on the island, so wouldnt the compass heading trajectury change in relationship to what proximity you are away from that opening? In plainer words woukdnt you use a different compas heading to find the hole if you were east of it as apposed to if you  were north of it, or do I have this wrong?

Quote
2.The space would be pulled in to such a small point in the pacific ocean that unless ships or planes were traveling directly down the ‘blow hole’ they would pass straight past the island and never come into contact with it or see it. This is why it has been so hard for so many people to find the island.

Here again Im lost??? When you refrence "the space", what space do you mean? outer space?

Quote
3. Going back to the General Theory of Relativity and curvatures in space: the light would take longer to travel around the spacial area containing the island than it would outside the area (i.e. all the way around the inside of the balloon vs a quick flash past the balloons blowhole). Therefore should the curvature in space be large enough, all inhabitants inside the islands spacial area would perceive time differently than those outside. This would go some way to explaining the changes in the time of day when the helicopter transported Desmond etc from the island to the boat for the first time.

If Im understanding you correctly here you saying that the lights speed and projecturies inside this "baloon" are being retarded in comparison to the light on the outside of the "baloon" therefore it creates the perception of time being altered even though time isnt really being altered?


Quote
4. Finally, if you combine the exotic matter theory with the intense electromagnetic forces present on the island it would be possible to explain why the plane first went missing as it was essentially sucked through the opening in the space curvature and onto the island.

This part I think Im clear on. Your saying the magnet grabbed the plane as it was travelling over head and pulled the plane down to it.

Quote
Everyones opinion on this would be very welcome. I am the only one out of my friends who watches LOST and it i extremely frustrating not being able to discuss what’s going on!!!


I feel your pain my friend. For a show that is supposedly so popular why do I need to get on the internet to discuss it and cant find anyone I know to talk about it with. but the cool part is I get meet new and intresting people like yourself because of that.


Quote
Regards,

Deevo

P.S. for anyone who understands the above and is as big a geek as I am then yes this is in fact how you would also explain the nature of the Tardis from Doctor Who. The centre of the Tardis sits in the middle of the space curvature and exotic matter pulls in space to a single point (i.e. the entrance to the Tardis). This is why from the outside the space looks small but on the inside there is loads of room.

Sorry bud your on your own with the doctor who stuff!

As for the rest of your post Im going to await your reply to either confirn Im understanding everything correctly or get you to retool my thinking so that I am.
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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2008, 09:01:19 AM »

The whole theroy of exotic matter, im actually not that intereted in
because its too scienticfic for my little brain

BUTTT

for all that effort you put in justafan, you deserve major repping =)
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just_a_fan
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« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2008, 10:43:59 AM »

The whole theroy of exotic matter, im actually not that intereted in
because its too scienticfic for my little brain

BUTTT

for all that effort you put in justafan, you deserve major repping =)


HA HA, txs. It hurt my brain trying to get what the OP was getting at, but I was all twisted up anyhow and had nothing better to do then to play with it, so I took a shot at it. I just noticed the date of the post so Im guessing I will not get my questions answered.
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« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2008, 11:11:28 AM »

The whole theroy of exotic matter, im actually not that intereted in
because its too scienticfic for my little brain

BUTTT

for all that effort you put in justafan, you deserve major repping =)

HA HA, txs. It hurt my brain trying to get what the OP was getting at, but I was all twisted up anyhow and had nothing better to do then to play with it, so I took a shot at it. I just noticed the date of the post so Im guessing I will not get my questions answered.

I don't think the OP's premisis for his argument was going to hold up to scrutiny. If I was understanding him correctly I did not find his argument compelling enough for me to consider it as plausable.
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